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monday morning rock
Anonymous says..11:50 PM
wow, what a busy fucken week.
jane says..5:36 AM
i like the metal singer that can break glass when he wails
Anonymous says..6:25 AM
fleet foxes are not that great
fastlassie says..6:49 AM
i want that as the sound of my alarm clock.
fastlassie says..6:51 AM
also Hot Chip < Spiritualized < Del
Night Dro says..7:12 AM
Nitro. What's up with the Nitro?
Anonymous says..7:25 AM
'nuff said.
Anonymous says..7:35 AM
Has anyone seen my right sock?
715 Panhandle says..7:39 AM
Sunday 9/28 Cola Freaks (Denmark), Black Time (UK), Secret Bangs, Bad Sports @ Muscle Beach (907 Denton St.)
Anonymous says..8:02 AM
yo homeboy gots a tennis ball in his shorts
brent says..9:38 AM
friday: neva dinova @ hailey's
Michael Huggins says..9:59 AM
f you work you should be paid. Club/bar/eatery establishments who want someone to play for food or drinks are merely trying to take advantage of musicians. Musicians who knuckle under to such, have a GREAT DEAL to learn about conducting real world business.

Equipment is expensive and has to be maintained, loaded in the vehicle (which has to be maintained and fed expensive gasoline), unloaded when arriving and then set up. THEN one has to play for the alloted time. Then, tear down the equipment, load it up, drive home, unload and store gear. That is work and should be paid for. $100 dollars a man is cheap.
$40.00/hr is a bare minimum in my view.

Then there is the talent and ability to play as an ensemble, to wit: the title of entertainer.... for which anyone doing it, should be paid.
Those who do it for less or food/drinks or free are cutting their on throat as well as the throat of their fellow professional musicians.

Here's a query for you. Let's say you are a plumber or a scientist or a computer programmer, etc. How about when I need YOUR services, I buy ya some pizza and a twelve pack of tallboys and you can clean my plumbing waste material out of my bathroom floor, assure the DNA info is correct for murder prosecution purposes, and program the flight plan computer at D/FW and Love Field airports?
Anyone with skills who works should be paid accordingly. Anyone who tries to get that group to work for food and drinks is a person I want nothing to do with. They're persona non grata to me. Some folks just want something for nothing. I want nothing from them.

If we as musicians/patrons don't boycott establishments that do this, it will grow into a problem that has no solution( it already has reared it's ugly head all over the D/FW metro area.

Mr/Ms. club/cafe/bar/pizzeria/ winery/eatery owner/mgr.; if you want free music, take your cds and boom box to work with ya. But remember, you had to buy those too(I hope). Perhaps BMI/ASCAP will pay you an unannounced/unknown visit about the time you're setting up the cd player to play some tunes you like for your patrons entertainment...... I'd like to be there when you get the royalty bill.

On the other hand, doing the occasional free performance for the purpose of a benefit for the community or an individual genuinely in need of help is a good thing for all involved. Just make sure it's for charity/ whole community benefit.
Thanx for listening,
Michael Huggins /The JukeKings/Paris Tex/ UNT grad.
Liles says..10:28 AM
Michael, down here on this planet, where the rest of us live, value is determined by need, supply and demand.

Sure, musicians should be paid. No one questions that. But if the musicians who are performing aren't responsible for bringing in the customers, then the venue is doing them a favor by putting them on a stage.

Bottom line - bands get paid for the bodies they bring into the venue. If you don't bring in anyone, you aren't worth anything. A musician isn't a computer programmer, scientist or a plumber. Businesses don't NEED musicians any more than they need a poet or painter to stand in the corner and create their art.

I've seen this from both sides of the table - as an artist and as a promoter. I know how hard it is to make ends meet as a musician and as a booking agent. In Los Angeles, it's the responsibility of the artists to buy tickets to their own shows and to resell them to the public. (It's called pay-to-play, but the reality is that that musicians are learning just how hard it is to promote a show for an artist that has no following.)

Sure, musicians would love to be able to make a living playing music. The reality is, no venue NEEDS a musician unless that musician is actually doing something to bring in customers. If you actually are bringing in business, then you are entitled to at least half (if not all, after production expenses) of the money that is generated at the door.

Boycott venues if you want, but I don't think anybody is going to notice. And by the way, any venue/restaurant/establishment who plays pre-recorded music inside their establishment is supposed to pay ASCAP/BMI fees. That means everything from record stores to venues to movie theaters. Doesn't matter if there is a cover charge or not. There is no choice between having bands and not paying, or playing pre-recorded music and paying licensing fees. Everybody pays. It's only a matter of time before ASCAP or BMI comes in and asks for their check. (Just ask BIll from Bill's Records, or the guys at Good Records.)

If you really want to make money playing live, make a record first and generated some public enthusiasm for your music. It isn't up to a pizza place to pay your light bill in the meantime.
stonedranger says..10:29 AM
Ok dude, we get it.
Anonymous says..11:34 AM
what's up with Miss Kitten these days. I'm quite curious. Is it a dj set?
fastlassie says..12:11 PM
I'm going to 'Cusack' UNT with some Dokken and see if anyone makes me pay for it.
Derek says..12:27 PM
how the fuck am I supposed to make it to all these shows...
Is Juan Mclean a Dj set or performance?
wearethetrees says..1:08 PM
Del < Mims < Hot Chip < babes at the Hot Chip show
atchley says..2:12 PM
I'm gonna disagree. That scream wasn't "Insane." It was pretty tame in my opinion.
Anonymous says..2:28 PM
friday september 26th at 1919 hemphill:


8 PM
Anonymous says..2:56 PM
no sr, liles has super duper points....................
fastlassie says..2:56 PM
i'm going to call bullshit on you trees.
speaking of FREE says..2:58 PM
free shows:

SEPT 26th - Culture prophet, top secret robot alliance, keith p/prince william
OCT 20th - The Death Set, pvc street gang,sydney confirm, tommy boy
NOV 9th - Parts and Labor, lipstick terror
Dec tba
chris says..2:59 PM
Hot Chip yeah
response to 2:58 says..3:04 PM
venue might help. all at the lounge on elm street
Suicide Solution says..3:11 PM
I paid 65 grand to learn as much as I could about music and all I got monetarily was 130 grand in student loan debt. I've been paid more for wearing a stomachless nighty in a collage film than I ever have playing music in DFW--and I've had steady creative output for 10 yrs! Now, all my gear is bullshit, all my hair is gone and the market for a real musician is lack luster. In fact, everyone I've known that did anything successful had to spend a ton of bucks constanly over extend themselves with promotion and never work instead to travel and tour. How they had the time to do it all is beyond me, how they had the money is obvious--wealth. I suppose looking back, I could've not gone to school, but then again who really would've loaned a hack like me any money at all. All the guys I ever wanted to play with were already in badass bands. They called it a hobby. Are you seeing where I am going with this?
Anonymous says..3:51 PM
Anonymous says..3:52 PM
jeez already, fuck the lounge!
Liles says..4:35 PM
While anybody who plays music would love to make a living doing it, the ugly truth is the best way to do it is by playing in a cover band that plays weddings and corporate parties, a "tribute" band that rips off an established classic rock artists, or by working as a staff composer for an ad agency.

I know, that sounds terrible. Personally, I'd rather starve. But circumstantial reality dictates protocol here; the majority of club goers aren't interested in hearing original music by a band they've never heard of. The majority of people aren't the least bit interested in something they aren't familiar with... they won't spend money to go see a movie they know nothing about, and they won't venture out of the house to risk spending money on something that might turn out to be a waste of time. Unless you're a Republican or trust fund kid, there is no such thing as "disposable" income.

So what happened? (I'll pretend you asked.)

When I first started out in the business, the dynamic was very different; you wrote your own songs, owned your own publishing, tried to find a record deal, and then crossed your fingers and hoped that your shit would find its way to a mainstream radio program director somewhere. If your music ended up on the radio or MTV, then you borrowed even more money from the record label for tour support. Going out on the road was a loss leader - turning a profit on the road was virtually impossible.

For songwriters, the possibility of selling the rights to your publishing was always there for the desperate or ignorant. (Chrissie Hynde of The Pretenders did this and basically gave away about 20 million dollars for pennies on the dollar. That's why she disappeared and never felt motivated to make music for years. One of our local artists who was once signed to Geffen Records made the same mistake as well.)

Anyway, if you did manage to sell records, then you had to worry about getting an accurate accounting for sales, expenses, promo giveaways and returns. The average royalty rate was somewhere between 9 and 12 percent of the wholesale cost of the album; due to you only after you paid back your initial advance for production costs and tour support. A band basically made a dollar an album after expenses - and most major labels spent (on average) a quarter of a million bucks an album.

Years later, the major labels are decimated, radio has very little influence at retail, and there are 50 million bands on MySpace who all suck. Labels used to exist because they did things the artist couldn't do themselves; manufacture vinyl records, pay radio program directors to play your shit, lend you money for tour support, get you on tours as the opening act for more established artists on their roster, etc... now they can't (or won't) do any of that stuff because they expect you to do it yourself.

It all boils down to risk. Michael Huggins and a few of your other posters have intimated that the financial risk should boil down to promoters and club owners - that musicians are entitled to a paycheck just because they've invested in gear and rehearsed their asses off. Labels stopped assuming that risk a long time ago. Promoters followed suit shortly thereafter. When bands stopped making money via record sales, they raised (doubled or tripled, I should say) ticket prices at the box office and made their problem our problem.

As far as ASCAP and BMI (who are essentially non-profit collection agencies), they never used to show up at clubs, restaurants or movie theaters looking for quarterly checks; they got their money from radio stations and that was it. Now that the industry is looking for any way in the world to generate revenue, they are squeezing any proprietor who broadcasts popular music in a public place. Publishing and licensing are the last profit centers left.

And the funny thing is, we could get rid of all of these tribute bands and prom night human jukeboxes if the licensing agencies would just squeeze them instead. I have to wonder just how many of these fake Led Zeppelin, Grateful Dead or Beatles copy bands are actually paying publishing fees to any of the original copyright owners.

So there ya go. Don't quit your day job until the industry finally figures out a new business model.
SELECT says..5:29 PM
the party friday @ zubar

our friends Collective skate shop / 4 duos

1 year anniversary

free and drink specials from red stripe all night.

lots of new tunes for the evening

with our homie A -1 in the backroom for the night.

select says..5:30 PM
oh and give aways from

girl , chocolate, 4 star , vans , and collective...

shirts and decks and shoes...probably for the give aways.

Anonymous says..5:43 PM
I am selling all of my equipment.
Anonymous says..6:05 PM
even your picks?
Anonymous says..6:09 PM
the revolution will not be.. um... nevermind.
Anonymous says..1:21 AM
hey um, if you're a musician in dallas, then you're fucked, but you're probably too fucking stupid to realize that in the first place- so go ahead and make your theories about promoters and the music biz or whatever. but check this out- haileys was packed tonight with a band that covered nofx and are sponsored by rock star energy drink.

it takes barely more than an ape to realize a musician in dallas has absolutely no reasonable aspirations.
loling about says..10:22 AM
out of touch old people arguing about the "industry"
hobby whores says..11:31 AM
oblivious know-it-all not-so-young people wearing member's only jackets and arguing about denton butt rock
Anonymous says..1:55 PM
member's only? oh my...

btw: the only out of touch old people i know would be your grandparents, who were taking inventory in the dumpster behind wal-mart. last i checked, anyway. ass!
Anonymous says..1:57 PM
ape on, motherfucker. ape on.............................
aaron gonzalez says..4:03 PM
Saturday the 27th

The Dave Dove/Paul Duo
featuring special guests:
Mike Maxwell
Sarah Alexander
Aaron Gonzalez
Stefan Gonzalez

One duo set, one ensemble set

9:00 sharp at
AllGood Cafe
2934 Main St.
$5 all ages
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